Headlights, grill and bumper replacement - what an arse!

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Well having bodged the dodgy headlights I got from Just Renault using the cunning of a fox, a lot of araldite, some large repair washers and some nice shiny new bolts Wink

I have started the reconstruction of my cars front end. The metalwork is fine so its just a case of 'unbolting' everything - as expected even this was a total bastard.

I got one bolt off one of the headlamps before I was forced to resort to the 'large flat blade screwdriver and massive hammer' combo to destroy the headlamps as best as I could. In the process I managed to bend the shitty metal that makes up the headlamp surround, so had to bang that back into shape too. Even then 5 of the bolts had seized so hard that I had to saw them in half to get them off - the headlights are SUCH A SHITE DESIGN Mad

I can't even see how you would manage to bolt them together when new! - there's just nothing to stop the bolt heads spinning, and the heads are totally inaccessible Evil or Very Mad

Moving onto the bumper, I find all the bolts are shitty giant self tapper bolt thingys, all of which were rusted to hell and back as expected Sad

I managed to loosen one off on the front, but the other 5 are just spinning round with the bolt and nut/metal spring tapper thing rusted into single monstrous lumps of shit. Bastard!

At this point, I gave up on the bolts for the day before I totally lost the will to live, and drove the car and myself off the nearest cliff, and decided to try the wheel arch liner to bumper bolts... Arggggg nooooo - not star bit self tapper screws Mad

Could I budge either of them? Could I bollocks. They don't slip, they just don't move at all - not a mm. How the feck do I get those off??! I also noticed that one of the plastic rails the bumper sits has had its wheel arch liner attachment snapped off - there is a chunk of plastic rail still on the wheel arch liner Sad

Not only that but there is rust everywhere on the front metalwork.

I think this cars days may be numbered Confused

Anyway - rant over Smile

. Well until tomorrow anyway, when I try and fit things back on (once I've finished removing the manky bolts still there Crying or Very sad

).

Cheers
Alex

Spammer Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 5717

most of the bolts screws under the bonnet in my car are in the same situation mate ,i hope i never need to change the bumper or so cause it will be a real pain . but every now and again i spray wd40 on rusted screws/bolts when i open the bonnet and hopefully they are not getting worse .
good luck to you

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

That doesn't surprise me mate - I'm not at all sure how water gets to the headlight bolts, but mine were rusty as hell. The bumper bolts I can understand a bit more, since I can trace the water route to them. They're just not protected at all from the elements. I think my engine compartment is worse than others since the radiator popped its bottom water pipe when the person I got it from had it, so all round there is rust-tastic.

The stupid and really annoying thing is the bolts don't even seem to be galvanised or anything which would have cost Renault virtually nothing to do and would have made them miles easier to remove! On the headlights, they could also have easily just used bolts with flat bladed screw heads on the ends, which would have made them actually removable intact - the adjustment bolts on the headlights have them, but the mounting bolts don't - its just typical Renault madness! Smile

Maybe I have missed my calling as a car designer lol

I do often wonder whether car designers/engineers actually do dismantle a prototype completely to see if its actually sensible, and I'm pretty sure they never ever think of the effects of corrosion. Maybe they are just assuming their car is so fantastic that it will be invincible to everything, including rust. Probably been watching their own adverts too much Wink

I think I would advise anyone who is buying headlights new to try and pump some araldite into the bolt head area before you put em in, or else be prepared for some brutality on removal!

Cheers
Alex

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

can we all say I told you so. Damn I'm good.

I have done enough of them to know all the tricks.

As for the arch liner T 20's drillt he heads off them.

I also just burst the cages for the bolts on the bumpers. Liek I mentioned before go to a scrappy and steal some wing bolts and cages from scrappers. These don't tend to corrode and they will be covered in paint and they don't tend to rust after you fit them.

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Yes Chris - I know you are the expert Smile

Do I actually need to use those sprung loaded tapper thingys when I refit the bumper? I was just going to use new nuts bolts and washers, but I don't know whether the vibration of the car will make them loosen off.

I think I've seen those spring things in a hardware shop if they are recommended. Are the spring clip things (which look like a folded bit of thin metal, bent over in half with a hole down the middle, found on the backside of the bolts) I'm on about what you are referring to as bolt cages?

I'm still irritated about the headlight design - it occurred to me thinking about it this morning; why the hell didn't they just use square headed bolts then there would be no problem! I know I'm obsessed - crap design just pisses me off Very Happy

: Are the Ph2 lights any better, or just the same old nonsense?

If it ever stops raining I'll go out and start phase 2, but its not looking good at the moment (I'm sure you can relate Chris lol).

Cheers
Alex

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

yes those are bolt cages. I'd just use them, easy to get and plenty of them in the scrappers. Nuts and bolts are not easy to do. the cages means a 5 min removal.

Ph2's are not much better design wise but the nuts are usually freer as theres been less time exposed to the elements!

Its sunny up here the now which makes a change, freezing though! I shoudl go and get on with some stuff.

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Well the saga continues... I got the remaining bolts off eventually using the required mix of brute force and, well, more brute force really. Now everything if OFF - yay! Very Happy

That should be the hard work done. Aligning my dodgy bodgy headlight mounting bolts will be interesting, but should be relatively simple I hope.

Only prob now is that there were screws that were attached to the old bumper at the top of the bumper on each side, in the wheel arches, but I can't figure out what they were supposed to be mounted to. Are those screws supposed to go into the back ends of the plastic bumper mounting rails on the wings? I've got another screw on each side in the wheel arch liner, roughly where the top of the bumper would be, and I can't figure out what they're supposed to screw into either!

BTW how much are new wheel arch liners? Are they one piece jobs or do they come in segments? Where are they mounted to the bodywork? I looked on dialogies but couldnt find em - did however find how much a new grill rail from Ren costs Surprised

- Â£55 for the metal bit, plus Â£15 and Â£10 each side for the rubber bits, +VAT!!! Not so bothered that mine is the wrong colour now lol Smile

Got me thinking about which part would be the most overpriced of all on these cars - the door trim strips are pretty bad; Â£35+VAT per door, and Â£12 for the 1" long bit in front of the front doors!

The other thing I was wondering is can you remove the bumper trim strips from the bumper? If so, how?

Cheers
Alex

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

righty. yes the bumper screws to the blacc bracket on the wings, these are frequently broken btw.

Arch liners, whiuch bit are you referrign to, theres 2 bits, the bit that goes round the arch and then the bit that joins to the other and runs to the bottom of the bumper and goes to the inner wing.

yes you can remove the strip, you need to poke it out from behind using a screwdriver.

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

I'm talking about the bit of wheel arch lining that joins to the bottom of the bumper, and then goes into a flat section which goes forwards a little bit along the bottom of the bumper. Theres the screw at the bottom of that bit, screwed upwards through the bumper first then through the flat section of the liner, and another screw on the liner that I can't figure out what its supposed to screw into. It looked like it might be supposed to be screwed into the plastic bumper rail end, but then where would the bumper have been screwed into? Thats whats confusing me - I seem to have two screws, one on the bumper, one on the liner, which would originally have been ni the same place as eachother.

Am I right in thinking that the plastic bumper rails are a bugger to change? They look to be riveted into the wing, and look a bit nasty. Is there really any point in worrying about the end having snapped off? I'm not sure how much difference it will make to the liner or anything else.

Cheers
Alex

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Well I figured out where the screw on the liner is supposed to go - it screws into the plastic bumper guide rail on the end, just a little bit lower than the bumper screws onto it. For some reason my liner seems to be sprung loaded to bounce upwards into the wheel arch, but I'm hoping that when I screw the bottom of the bumper to the liner that will hold it down.

Got the bumper on today - getting the fogs out of the old bumper was an arse and had to drill em out. With a fair amount of 3-in-1 oil and wd40 on the bumper bolt cages I got new bolts into them, and the subframe ones were easier as I just used a nut and bolt with zinc repair washers either side.

One wierd thing is that when I was checking the headlight fit, one side fits snug into the crossmember, and sits on the top of the bumper, but the other side, will sit on the crossmember initially, but when I do up the top mounting bolts, it lifts up and off the bumper. Any ideas what's going on there? Are the lights supposed to sit on the bumper or float above it?

The coppery grill rail actually looks quite nice imho with the existing bodywork - all most looks like an intentional mod lol

Cheers
Alex

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

they are normally cracked mate, all mine are cracked. I don't bother about em.

float above it, the slam panels bent at the bottom, pull it out, you will knwo what I mean, headlights will also point right down on that side.

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

OK I will just bodge the liners as best I can and then leave em to it Smile

As for the headlights, do you mean that on the side where the light sits on the bumper, the crappy thin metal plate that it bolts into has bent in towards the engine at the bottom? Is there any way to know that I've bent it straight enough, or anything to align the lights to when putting them in to make sure they are at the right height? The floating one sits about 3/4" above the bumper where the lens meets the plastic I think, which seems about right - I can't actually remember how the grill rail sits relative to the lights though which doesn't help matters - does the rail sit actually underneath the headlights and indicators? Does it sit in front of or behind the little lip along the top of the bumper?

Cheers
Alex

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Well its all back together Smile

Padded out the rubber thingy that the bonnet rests on as I noticed the bonnet was wonky - you could grip hold of it and wobble it in a seesaw fashion across the bonnet, so I don't know what has happened there! I eventually managed to bend the headlight mounting metal crossmember thing so that the headlights actually sat at the same height on each side, but I didn't bother with the grill rail brackets on the corners cause I didn't fancy sticking my arm up underneath to screw them onto the headlights, and they didn't seem to be needed as the indicators were a super tight fit. Other than that everything has nice new bolts or screws which look totally out of place on the rest of the car lol

So now I've got to sort the headlight aim out since I'm sure it is totally wrong - anyone know what the aim angles are supposed to be? I can't find any info as to what the vertical aim angle is supposed to be, or what direction horizontally they are supposed to point! If someone gives me the angles I can set em up roughly and get a garage to do it properly when I have some more Â£.

Cheers
Alex

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

go park in front of a wall about 20 foot from it then adjust the lights.

Should aim down and point to the left slightly.