Removing the head - Has a mate wrecked my car?

Level 5 User Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 112

I needed the headgasket doing on my clio so i had arranged for a mechanic to come out to mine and do it. Unfortunately got let down but one of my mates who works for a body shop but knows his stuff on cars volunteered to do it for me.

Anyway i assumed he knew what he has doing and let him get on with it. He got so far as trying to remove the timing cover and couldnt get the top cover off. So it seems he has cut the cambelt so he can just pull the head off that way. Likely i have another belt.But i think he has made a big mistake doing that as he not only did not align the engine to TDC before doing so but we have no timing marks now either.

Current state is, the belt has been snipped, the crank pulley is off and the engine is locked with a screwdriver on the flywheel.

Is it possible the timing is wrecked now? If so how can you start from scratch and realign the timing with a new belt?

Thanks for any advice, the engine is a 1.4 energy E7J lump

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

well thank god someone who knew what they were doing did the job eh!

Site Subscriber Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 3547

there will be a mark of some sort on top pulley, if the bottom pulley was aligned before the belt was sniped it should be all in line, but if he snipped it left the head on, and then turned the bottom pulley, the valves may have impacted, doubt its enough to bend them.

FCS Event Manager Joined: 04 Jan 2005 Posts: 3680

should be ok as long as you have not turned the crank or the cam since cutting the belt.

remove the head, with the head off, line up the crank pully with its timing mark, same with the cam pully, i'm not familiar with the E7J lump but would assume there is a timing mark on the rocker cover so u can have the cam pully lined up with that, put head back on the block after you have replaced the headgasket and both should be pretty much lined up, lock the flywheel, cambelt on and adjust and carry on with the reassembly.

before starting the engine after a timing belt change i always turn the engine over by hand, socket on the crank pully bolt and turn it 2 revolutions to ensure the timing marks still line up properly.

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

I just dont understand all this locking up business. except for when you need to slacken things off....spin the thing as much as you like, the belt will (should) have white timing marks on it, one for each notch on each pulley.

As long as you line the notch on the pulley up with the white mark on the belt, all it fine...it can be in any position as long as the white lines are in the right places, ie, correct number of teeth between pulleys.

if somehow you have a belt with no marks, i can give you the numberof teeth between each pulley!

and you would have to try VERY hard to bend things by hand.

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:58 am

JB wrote:

and you would have to try VERY hard to bend things by hand.

Had practise JB?

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

kind of

Level 2 User Joined: 06 Mar 2005 Posts: 44

I wouldnt worry about it, if you think about it, the engines built in two halves, so it has to be timed initally. TDC is found easily on number one cylinder, and the cam pulley(s) should have a mark for TDC, if not looking at the cams you can work out whats going on. The only problem you would have is like is suggested valve damage, although i think it would be rather difficult to turn the engine over by hand if the valves were pressing down on the pistons - never tried it though so i could be wrong!

Level 5 User Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 112

Well the situation is alot worse now.

Removed the top timing cover and both gaskets last night. The head just would not come off no matter how hard we pulled. I spoke to a mechnaic and he thinks the wet liners of the cylinders have stuck to the head and it is siezed on. Furthermore if we remove the head it is likely to pull the liners out.

What a waste of time and money now i need a new car

Is there any hope?

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

I clicked that lots Very Happy

ahh simpel things simple minds eh! Anyway...

right do you have all the head bolts out? Theres 10 of them.

If all the bolts are out put 1 back in. Which one? The one on the front left of the block when looking at it. This is the doweled one, screw it in so its semi-tight, not much though.

Grab the dizzy and pull the head forwards, that will break the seal between the gasket and head and gasket and liners, head should lift off now.

if it doesn't move then somethings still attached.

Level 5 User Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 112

Chris, any chance the head could have warped and seized? we have literally undone everything and it won't move!

All headbolts, all covers all manifolds and bolts!

I was following the hanyes and it said to leave the bottom right head bolt in not the bottom left Confused

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

its the bottom right from the drivers seat.

when you face the front of the car, its the bolt on the left closest to the radiator. cambelt end

If its warped then the head will have lifted off the gasket/block.

Theres nothing for it to sieze to except the headbolts.

so put it in the bolt in the right place and pull on the dizzy.

if your to wimpy wee man to do that go get ya mamma to do it, (thats encouraging talk to make you prove that your not a wee girl Razz

)

also you got the cambelt cover off yet?

If not you will have to break the cover as well to remove it!

its only held on by 1 10mm nut and 3 10mm bolts.

Level 5 User Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 112

Yeah got the cambelt covers off! had two torx screws which were a bitch to get off.

Yes i admit i must be a girl if i cant get this head off! unless its warped of course.

Think we have been pulling on the wrong side.Will have a go when i get home and put the bolt in the cambelt end.

Chris, what is the possibility of the liners coming out of place? its a bit worrying.

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

not very high, normally only move when the engines turned over without clamping them whenthe heads off

torx screws,must be a later engine, t30 buggers

Level 5 User Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 112

Well the head is finally off, two problems which probably mean i am gonna just get another clio.

I cant get the snapped headbolt out of the bottom end at all no matter what try (molegrips and cutting a groove for a flat head screwdriver)

I also cant get the snapped coolant temp stud out of the head.Tried drilling it but it is just not going to happen.

I think this car is lost and doesn't want to be repaired. Sad

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

get thje hammer, belt the end of th esnapped bolt a good un. get some heat on it and let wd-40 sink into it over night.

Site Subscriber Joined: 29 Dec 2004 Posts: 395

If all else fails, get a bolt extractor from snap-on. NOT one of those crap reverse screw things that just expands the bolt and makes it tighter.

With the snap-on extractor you just drill a hole, then hammer in a star shaped rod. Then you slide a special nut over the rod which you can then get your spanner round.

Has never failed for me.

Level 5 User Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 112

OK will try that.Any ideas on the snapped coolant temp sensor though Chris?

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

how has it snapped? flush?

Level 5 User Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 112

yeah its snapped flush so the casing with the screw thread is stuck inside the head.Its stuck so tight i cant get it out at all. Tried ramming something to fill the gap and try getting it out that way but no joy at all...

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

drill 2 wee holes through the middle beside each other and rama screwdriver in