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Chris H
Forum Moderator
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 19978
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Posted:
Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:15 am |
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so you only replaced 1 rear damper? |
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astrojon007
Site Subscriber
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 731
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Posted:
Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:30 am |
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I could only source 1 for the moment but have two spanky new ones ordered that should arrive tomoze or friday =-) Not particularly happy about only 1 being changed but since it's for less than a week I honestly didn't think it'd matter. |
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Chris H
Forum Moderator
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 19978
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Posted:
Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:39 am |
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wait until you fit the 2 of them and see what happens in regards to ride height. |
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astrojon007
Site Subscriber
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 731
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Posted:
Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:45 am |
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Will do m8ty. The replacement was a 2nd hand 1 anyway so should be brill when I get t new ones on. |
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astrojon007
Site Subscriber
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 731
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Posted:
Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:24 am |
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Just out of curiosity what possibilitys are there to explain the drop in height.
Tortion bars clicked down a nothch?
Rear beam mounting points distorted from rust/fatigue.
Dampers?
Wheels bearings?
Also how much does the car get lowered by when changing the tortion bars? i.e 1 click down = 10mm drop.
I haven't got time to work on the car till tomoze so I'd like to have the best idea of what to look for while I'm there. Any pics of how the rear beam should be and also the mounting points would be of great help if anyone has any. |
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Chris H
Forum Moderator
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 19978
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Posted:
Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:40 am |
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torsion bars 1 click can be 2mm or 120mm. its not a matter of turning it a click thats what fuckign retards like car mags say. They don't know a torsion bar from theiur fridge
If the bar had turned itself round a click it would be on its arse as the splines are not evactly tiny it woudl have just dropped.
if the rear seats are sitting funny then the rear berams mounts have gone. |
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Neal
Forum Moderator
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 7432
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Posted:
Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:46 am |
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Here's a pic of me swapping the rear beam for another one on my hatch. You can see the 2 mounting points sticking out towards the front of the car at the ends of the beam. There are 4 studs on the shell (2 each side) which pass through those mountings and are secured with nuts. Those 4 studs are the only things holding the beam to the shell.
The bars cant have accidentally 'clicked down a notch', they have to be forcibly pulled out on their splines, the height adjusted, and then hammered back in.
Some people say that there is no relation between a spline and the change in ride height, but I say that there clearly is a geometrical relationship. Using that principle in practice to set the ride height however would be another matter altogether.
wheel bearings, nope, no way for them adjust the height.
Dampers dont affect ride height either, although some dispute that too |
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Chris H
Forum Moderator
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 19978
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Posted:
Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:54 am |
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obviosuly theres a relationchip.
Theres fewer spline son 1 end and of different sizes so dependign on where its inserted the height will change. The bar also twists, so 1 click can raise it or lower it.
Whne lowering the bar should slide in and out easily when you do it right.
The onyl thing thats putting any preload ont he bar with the car off its wheels is the damper. |
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Neal
Forum Moderator
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 7432
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Posted:
Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:02 am |
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Chris H wrote: |
Theres fewer spline son 1 end and of different sizes so dependign on where its inserted the height will change. The bar also twists, so 1 click can raise it or lower it.
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Precisely. If you mark both ends of the bars against the bits that they slide into, and you know how many splines are on both ends, you can postion the bar to set a certain height.
eg. lets say for easy numbers there are 36 splines on the outer end of the bar. If you take the bars out, and move the arms so that the bars slide back in the same postion in the middle, but with a 1 spline difference on the outside spline, then the arm will have raised 10 degrees. You also know the distance from the bar to the axle, so you can work out the height change. Or you can do it the other way round.
Of course a 1 spline movement on the outside will be a massive change of ride height and thats where the different number of splines on the inner end comes in so you can get all sorts of intermediate increments. Thats where working it out becomes impractical.
but yeah, the idea of lowering the car by a 'click' is an idiot's concept |
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astrojon007
Site Subscriber
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 731
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Posted:
Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:09 am |
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So really I'm looking at either the mounting points for the rear beam or the dampers. As the dampers are being changed tomorrow or sunday I should narrow it down fairly easily. Cheers for the pics as well. I have a good idea of what I'm workin with now, although the whole tortion bar thing confuses me so I may have to fiddle and see for myself.
I also wonder if a previous owner fiddled with the tortion bars and didn't get it quite right, however this still doesn't explain the recent drop in ride height. |
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astrojon007
Site Subscriber
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 731
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Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:07 am |
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I'm still waiting for those dampers to arrive.
Did have a look yesterday at the rear beam and the mounting points look fine and haven't distorted.
I'm confused What the ferk has happened?!?!? |
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schakal
Spammer
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 5717
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Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:36 am |
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just chuck new dampers in there and see what comes out ,i had exactly the same problem (mine was worse )
sometimes the solution is simple how much ever people try to put it in a complicated way |
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Neal
Forum Moderator
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 7432
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Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:00 am |
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schakal wrote: |
sometimes the solution is simple how much ever people try to put it in a complicated way |
Or a logically reasoned way, based on fact, as the case may be. |
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astrojon007
Site Subscriber
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 731
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Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:43 am |
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Quote: |
Or a logically reasoned way, based on fact, as the case may be. |
Ah yes good point....however logic and reason has not yet explained why the arse end of my car is close to scraping the floor |
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schakal
Spammer
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 5717
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Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:57 am |
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1st of march the day i bought the chamade
this is a few weeks after with the turbines on still with the old rear shocks
and this is what it looks like after changing the shocks
SHOCKING ?????
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Neal
Forum Moderator
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 7432
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Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:59 am |
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okay schakal well the shocks you took off were either the wrong length or fucked.
Or the new ones youve put on are. |
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schakal
Spammer
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 5717
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Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:18 am |
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you are it making sense neal
the shocks i took off were de carbons(original ones more likely) ,i still have them in the garden
the new one i put on there are not decarbons but exactly the same length as the ones i took off (once i can pull the decarbon shock all the way up)
i cant put fancy pictures up here of myself with a spanner in hand changing the rear axle of my car but i think i got this right and you got to let it go ,dont you think ???? |
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Neal
Forum Moderator
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 7432
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Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:43 am |
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schakal wrote: |
you are it making sense neal |
No, you're the one not making sense
schakal wrote: |
the new one i put on there are not decarbons but exactly the same length as the ones i took off (once i can pull the decarbon shock all the way up) |
OK, so lets get this straight. You know from your own experience that you can extend and compress the shocks by hand and they have no spring force in them to speak of, and yet you still think that somehow they are determining the ride height?
By the way, you missed out your usual "whos the daddy now???" comment |
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schakal
Spammer
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 5717
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Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:48 am |
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no need to say more tbh matey,i stand my side and you do yours
pictures tell you all imo |
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Neal
Forum Moderator
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 7432
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Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:52 am |
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schakal wrote: |
no need to say more tbh matey,i stand my side and you do yours
pictures tell you all imo |
yes they do, they tell you that
Neal 19 16v wrote: |
okay schakal well the shocks you took off were either the wrong length or fucked.
Or the new ones youve put on are. |
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Soneji
Forum Moderator
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 1356
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Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:44 am |
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schakal wrote: |
1st of march the day i bought the chamade
this is a few weeks after with the turbines on still with the old rear shocks
and this is what it looks like after changing the shocks
SHOCKING ?????
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The car is parked round a different way in both pictures. Arse to the wall the rear setup will compress somewhat due to the weight of the car being pulled by, you guessed it gravity. The opposite would happen when parked the other way. |
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