Advice from the H

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

but why dont i go to nirvana or face judgement by allah...or be reincarnated...

if i dont believe in any where do i go? as each religion believe you go somewhere different.

amazes me how ppl can put so much faith into something that simply cannot be proved.

i for one, workship the god of renault. without him, renaults would never have come into existance.

prove me wrong!

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

what loius renault? A god? bit far mate, bit far! lol

he invented the drum brakes as we know them as well.

I dunno where we go or what happens, but tbh it can;t be much worse than here can it!

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:29 am

JB";p="85614 wrote:

amazes me how ppl can put so much faith into something that simply cannot be proved.
!

A 100% reliable 19

Each time I get into my car JB each time!

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

lol at mals!

Am I the only one who thinks we should be debating this around a buffet table?

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:32 am

Oh yes, extra popadoms when your ready waiter!

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

food, good company, religious wars happening over the pudding, what could be better?

Hell we could even have a star trek death pit thing!

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

i hate religious debates.

if you stand back and look at ppl in church they just look mad..the things they are doing for something that they cant see or hear or anything...they are just assuming they are being appreciated.

i like the thing about the missionary neal, helps my point...the christian says he will go to heaven without hearing the word of god...but what will the muslim think..or the buddhist etc etc...

its just such a HUGE topic that ppl spend all their lives talking/arguing/warring over and all for something noone will ever prove...

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:48 am

Not all ppl in church look mad they dont all go to assume to be appreciated!!

Some people find just the thought of there being someone there as a comforter, and for people I know who have been through hard times, and very hard times, this can be the blessing in itself, so you cant condem people for having a bit of belief, some people have no-one and nothing else, take that away as well and where will they be?

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

thats what i meant by it is merely a crutch to get thru life...

nevertheless it is a faith in something you dont know exists.

but i wont disagree, it helps ppl get thru life.

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

Amber is religious. Shes not been to church sincce we have gone out I don't think. It doesn't bother me if she went or not. Her choice.

freedom of religion is one thing.

What gets me is orange walks. I used to go out with an orange girl (she'd been tango'd boom boom) and she went on the walks and all that crap.

Orange walks are a pain in the arse for traffic etc. What really gets me about it is how can they chave them? Whwen was the last time hiindus decided to march down the dstereets every year all over the country? Or catholics? Or sikhs and so on!

Why can't I start my own religion where i am driven along in a float with my followers (topless women) and celebrate various stuff?

Equality? pah!

Level 9 User Joined: 07 Dec 2005 Posts: 373

Why can't I start my own religion where i am driven along in a float with my followers (TOPLESS WOMEN) and celebrate various stuff?

Equality? pah!

id be 1 of your followers,if your serious Smile

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

are you a topless woman?

FCS Event Manager Joined: 04 Jan 2005 Posts: 3680

religion is my pet hate!

i simply can not believe in a God who willingly lets people suffer.

If there is meant to be ONE God, how come there are so many of them?
If there is ONE God, why the hell are we having to worry about muslim extremists wanting to chop off our heads?

Which leads me on to this

Religion is the single biggest killer of mankind ever!

ever since there was religion or belief in a God of one kind or another then there has been conflict, ppl killing each other cos thier God is the real God.
What about Ethiopia for example, Cambodia, Vietnam etc etc etc, why do so many ppl have to die and suffer?
Why are women raped, why are kids abused? Why are those innocents made to suffer when dictactors like Saddam was allowd to kill ppl and live in luxury for years upon years with his regin of terror?
Why are we inflicted with horrible diseases like AIDS or cancer ?
Surely if there was a God, he could not let all this happen in HIS name?

Level 9 User Joined: 07 Dec 2005 Posts: 373

JB";p="85700 wrote:

are you a topless woman?

em,no suppose id be a follower of the follower's

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

Wicked Neo";p="85706 wrote:

religion is my pet hate!

i simply can not believe in a God who willingly lets people suffer.

If there is meant to be ONE God, how come there are so many of them?
If there is ONE God, why the hell are we having to worry about muslim extremists wanting to chop off our heads?

Which leads me on to this

Religion is the single biggest killer of mankind ever!

ever since there was religion or belief in a God of one kind or another then there has been conflict, ppl killing each other cos thier God is the real God.
What about Ethiopia for example, Cambodia, Vietnam etc etc etc, why do so many ppl have to die and suffer?
Why are women raped, why are kids abused? Why are those innocents made to suffer when dictactors like Saddam was allowd to kill ppl and live in luxury for years upon years with his regin of terror?
Why are we inflicted with horrible diseases like AIDS or cancer ?
Surely if there was a God, he could not let all this happen in HIS name?

#1 get-out clause... "free will"

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

i agree neo.

and also neal.

it can be used as an excuse to do as you want...

"why did you crash that plane into that building?"

"god told me to"

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

I could accept religion if I thought that people were making their own mind up about it, but that's clearly not the case. How come the different religions are largely regional, separated by country borders in a lot of cases? Surely if everyone was making their own mind up about what they believed, you'd expect to see an even spread of each of the religions across the world?

People just go along with what everyone around them believes. If you're born and grow up in Saudi Arabia, you're going to be a muslim, what does that tell you? Did you really come to your own independent conclusion that islam is the one true religion?

It's sheep mentality and it's pathetic.

Level 8 User Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 278

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Same here, although I don't believe that any God has anything to do with those things happening.

I would then ask the question what role do you think a god has? Based on the assumption that the earth didn't always exist, if a god can create this, why can't he have control over what happens to us (if he wanted to)?

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but as chris said, if there is such a thing..why all the wars? why all the shit that happens?

'to test us' so death is a way of testing? bit extream isnt it?

The context of 'to test us' was that we can learn afterwards, obivously if the person then dies as a result, then there is no oppurtunity to learn.

Why does death happen to 'good' or 'innocent' people?

The bible teaches that death happens as a result of sin. Sin is a result of Adam & Eve disobeying God in the garden of Eden (which is believed to be in Iraq BTW!).

But then you ask about 'innocent' people being killed in natural disasters, surely this has nothing to do with their sin?

I don't know. But what I do know, is that He is a rightious and just judge and will deal with them accordingly.

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my opinion...religion is merely a crutch for ppl to have something to believe in and rely on to get them through life.

Religion does help people to get through difficult times and to have some goal, dive and direction in life.
But it is much more than this, it provides an explaination to how the world was formed, why it is in it's current state and prophisies how it will end and what happens after that.
It provides advice on how to treat other people, and many other life lessons.

Surely it's useful for more than just when a methaphorical crutch is needed.

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the bible is merely a book some clever person wrote to control ppl.

The Bible does not teach people to control people, (unlike many other religions) it does not have a great leader who is a human being, rather it is God himself. This is an interesting differnce, and something that should be noted when choosing between Hinhuism, Buddism, Islam, Bahi, etc.

If the Bible is just a book written by a clever person, how clever are they?

I just found this on Google: http://www.av1611.org/amazing.html

Some things mentioned there are:

The earth is round - pretty obious to you and I, but at one time it wasnâ€™t. Thist was written in the bible in 700BC and only confirmed by man in 1500 AD.

Also the attempted destruction of Tyrus by Nebuchadnezzar was prophesied as was the actual destruction by Alexander the Great.
this was done hundreds and hundreds of years before the events.

There are many examples given.

How could cleverness be enough to correctly predict the future and to explain happenings on the earth thousands of years before they were confirmed by science?

For me prophesy confirms that the Bible is true, and was written with inspiration from God.

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religion is to blame for a lot of the bad things in this world...war being the main one...

God gives people a free rein to make their own choices, it's the people that cause cause the wars, it is greed for oil, power, land, whatever.

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if i am good all my life, but do not believe in god, will i go to heaven?

The Bible teaches that we are born sinful, we inherit this from our parents, and as such we cannot 'work' our way to heaven.
It says that 'All our good works are as filthy rags in God's sight', what on earth are the bad ones like then?

If you don't believe Gods exists, then how is the existence of the world explained? If you do believe that he exists surely it would make sense to find out more about him, just incase He has something to tell you done something you should know about. He is God after all, shouldn't we treat him as such?

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dunno but right at the end you can believe in him and get in JB. Thatâ€™s the rules I believe.

Theatrically you can, IF you know when the end is, which you don't. Another problem is that a person my not be in the same mindset and notion of believing in Him then. So it is a very very high risk strategy, and don't forget the stakes are infinitely high too. Consider carefully what is in the balance.

The 'missionary paradox' this is an interesting question, and one that I will have to think about. My initial reaction is that the Bible instructs people to 'go forth and preach the Gospel to every nation, tongue and kindred'.
The missionary is doing this, but in doing so they effectively condemn those that reject the Gospel (which is a free choice I might add).
But what I would say is that to accept the Gospel guarantees sins forgiven and entry to Heaven, but not having heard it at all and doing evil things does not guarantee this. However God is a just judge.

Also as I write this I'm remembering something about a verse saying God revealing Himself though His creation. Also a story about a missionary who came across a tribe that had found God this way and actually already practiced something very close to what we know as Christianity.

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If I donâ€™t believe in any where do I go? As each religion believes you go somewhere different.

amazes me how ppl can put so much faith into something that simply cannot be proved.

Yes there are many religions in the world, each with their own version of events, so how to pick the real one?

Personally, my choice is based on what can be proven through prophecy, the human control factor and what I see the beliefs doing to other people.

But of these three the only one that can't be faked or copied is the prophecy.

So if I can see the prophecy is true (I'm talking about stuff that can be seen before it happens, rather than retro prophecy - i.e. "so thatâ€™s what that meant").

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nevertheless it is a faith in something you dont know exists.

If you knew something existed why would any faith be necessary?

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What gets me is orange walks.

The Orange Order? Just let them get on with it, it's only a couple of times per year. Don't get me wrong, they aren't quite a pillar of society.

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religion is my pet hate!

i simply can not believe in a God who willingly lets people suffer.

Suffering did not exist until Adam and Eve sinned. He gave us a free will, so that we could choose to follow Him or not.
If He didn't let people suffer then what would He do to stop this? Why would He do it? What would the impact be on those who were admistitering the suffering? Would they have to suffer? Would people then believe God because they witnessed his almightly power to control humans? Not because they realise their sin, and how it can be forgiven.

The earth is a proving ground, is an opportunity to make a choice, it is only temporary.

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If there is meant to be ONE God, how come there are so many of them?

The Devil is the master of confusion. He is very good at this.

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If there is ONE God, why the hell are we having to worry about muslim extremists wanting to chop off our heads?

Refer to the bit on people controlling people.

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Which leads me on to this

Religion is the single biggest killer of mankind ever!

Thatâ€™s like saying that Scientists are the biggest killers as they have invented the atomic bomb.

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ever since there was religion or belief in a God of one kind or another then there has been conflict, ppl killing each other cos thier God is the real God.

Personally I can't understand how one person could kill another and believe that it is 'good'.

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What about Ethiopia for example, Cambodia, Vietnam etc etc etc, why do so many ppl have to die and suffer?
Why are women raped, why are kids abused? Why are those innocents made to suffer when dictactors like Saddam was allowd to kill ppl and live in luxury for years upon years with his regin of terror?
Why are we inflicted with horrible diseases like AIDS or cancer ?
Surely if there was a God, he could not let all this happen in HIS name?

None of these things are done in His name.
They are done in the name of:.

Why are women raped - Lust
why are kids abused - Lust, Perversion
Why are those innocents...Saddam ... reign of terror - Greed, power, pure evil.
Diseases Bird Flu etc.- Greed leading to poverty, leading to people drinking dirty water, eating infected animals.
Diseases Cancer - ??? What causes cancer? Smoking? Burning the ozone layer? Is this done in the name of God?

All this boils down to sin.

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I could accept religion if I thought that people were making their own mind up about it, but that's clearly not the case. How come the different religions are largely regional, separated by country borders in a lot of cases? Surely if everyone was making their own mind up about what they believed, you'd expect to see an even spread of each of the religions across the world?

People just go along with what everyone around them believes. If you're born and grow up in Saudi Arabia, you're going to be a muslim, what does that tell you? Did you really come to your own independent conclusion that islam is the one true religion?

It's sheep mentality and it's pathetic.

Not quite, as they should all be drawn towards the real one. Interesting point though. I agree that it is because we are inclined to believe our parents made the right choice, (and their parents before them).
Also, no one has time, or likes thinking about it all, the Devil is an expert at introducing distractions and influencing us away from thinking about such things. Like lemmings I suppose.

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

the finger has hovered over the lock button on this but I'm letting it continue as its good to have friendly debate!

Stephen, no doubt your a good god fearing man, which deserves respect. But in your retorts you seem topushign the religion on us, and judgign other religions. This is oen of the points a few of us have made, neal did it better than most.

As for phrophecy, thats not hard.

I hereby declare that tomorrow the sun shall rise, i phophecise it!

As for the atom bomb, nuclear bombs have in no way at all even come close to deatsh by natural disasters, disease, famine etc etc.

If there is a god and he made it all, what made him?

FCS Event Manager Joined: 04 Jan 2005 Posts: 3680

go into it in as much detail as you like, it still does not stop innocents getting hurt or killed or suffering needlessly.

and if there is a God and he lets kids get sexually abused, these are innocent kids who have not had the chance to do any sin themselves, get raped, abused, beaten and GOD lets that happen, then screw God.
He would be more evil than the Devil himself to allow that to happen!

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

Neo Stephen stated that we are all born sinful, so you can't say they are innocent.

i am reading that amazing book page. TBH a lot of is is common sense. The main problem that was over looked is the shear stupidity of the common man, nmore so in great numbers.

Examples

The whole blood thing, thats fecking obvious, we have killed animals for millions of years, how do we do that? we bleed them.

Rain, sun snow, earth round etc, a few simple observations can show its correct.

Sitting on your arse watching things happen would lead eventually to these conclusions.