Clio 16v won't start

Level 8 User Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 278

Jonnyboy wrote:

i disagree with you on the ht lead order...go chk again

Jonny, I noticed that Mr Haynes versions of ht lead order did not agree with what was posted and had went with Haynes.
Hadn't got round to pointing that out, but anyway the leads on the Clio match with the manual.

Chris,
Unplug the fuel pump relay.

Then crank it over to depressureise the fuel lines, disconnect the lines at the fuel filter and drain lines and the tank?

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

maybe we are getting confused with the direction im looking at it...ill get a pic up later...i cannot find it in haynes?

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

JB the order I gave is the correct order.

number 1 cylinde ris closest to the gearbox then 4 is at the belt end, top left on the dizzy looking at it from the passenger side of the car is number 1 firing order is 1/3/4/2 thats in an anit clockwise direction again viewed from the passenger side.

Unplug the relay which will mean no fuel or oil will be injected, this will clear out any fuel in the engine/manifold. like i said earlier it might even start and run briefly, try to keep starting it until no more signs of life are there. T

Then reconnect the relay it should hopefully start, depending on how much oil you chucked in (I have to question your intelligence with that one btw) the car shoudl be fine, if you chucked in a gallon or so then your a muppet but if you fill the tank it should be diluted enough for the car to run albeit it crappily.

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

arse, got my cyl no.s wrong way round...DOH!

god im so good arent i

Site Subscriber Joined: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 2317

JB strikes again! Razz

Level 8 User Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 278

Pumped most of the fuel out and put in fresh stuff. I hadn't put much oil in at all.

Unpluged the relay etc - no joy.

Checked the cams and belt just to be sure - they are okay.

Wipped a spark plug out and put it over the hole.

Cranked the engine over...

KaBOOM a big blue flame lept out of the cylinder!!!!

Nice one.

(Note: Do not try this is home, this stunt was performed by idiots err Rolling Eyes

professionals and should not be attempted by a minor)

Disconnected that injector and the cold start but it kept flaming for a while.

Me thinks the recently done head gasket is suspect, and it's leaking between cylinders, it's about the only thing left.

I'll hopefully get a lend of a compression tester over the next few days and check it out.

Retroholic Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 5685

lol

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

that wud have been excellent to have caught on video...

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

well like I said ages ago the things flooded further proved by the flame.

Keep the relay out crank it over it will take a while then it will start.

You have spark and fuel but not enough air for the fuel thats already in there.

Level 8 User Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 278

Result of compression test - The engine hasn't enough compression even to squeeze a glass of orange juice!

2 bar ish on all cylinders.

So does this mean either:

A) The timing has slipped a bit

B) The head gasket is leaking between (or around) ALL the cylinders?

Previously I had checked the cams were turning and the belt was tight but the timing hasn't been checked.

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

r there any other head gasket symptoms? oill in water or water in oil, plumes of white smoke out exhaust (difficult cos u cant start it)

chk the timing...u ok with that?

Level 8 User Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 278

No water -> oil mixing or vice versa, however there was whte smoke comming out of the exhaust when it was cold, this cleared when it warmed up so I think it is just the cold start enrichment.

I will check the timing maybe tonight or tomorrow.

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

Rings might have gone, broken when you fired it up that time.

Chck the timing the marks are accurate so you can rely on them.

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

bit of white smoke is normal when cold, im talkin plumes of white steamy smoke...smoke screen that doesnt clear when warmed up

going back to ur initial post, u said it had only be standing still for a week...what was it running like before? a week isnt long for huge things to go wrong.

Level 8 User Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 278

Right, I brought piston 1 around to TDC by checking for the timing mark on the flywheel and locking the crankshaft.

The camshafts are both 90 degrees off the marks in the clockwise direction. This is not where I left them!

Reason?

The aux belt lost a thread or two when going up and down the road, I thought it would just tear off and drop out. Instead some of it jumped into the timing belt casing and must have went for a spin around the crankshaft pulley and pushed the teeth of the belt out to allow the timing to slipâ€¦

Or else the timing slipped of its own accord? The belt is tight but isnâ€™t new (maybe a year + half) but it still shouldnâ€™t slip.

Hopefully there are no bent valves etc.

I must check the belt to see if there are any teeth missing etc.

JB â€“ The head has been skimmed and a new gasket been put in a couple of months ago, the car hasnâ€™t been driven since, but has been â€˜exercisedâ€™ by ripping up and down a short stretch of back road from time to time. It was running well and felt especially quick with the lower 1st and 2nd gears from the Laguna gearbox.

Site Subscriber Joined: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 2317

The cam pulleys do 'drift' out a bit, about 18 teeth or somthing like that I think it was, happened when I was changing the Belt on my 16v, apparently its normal...

Edit: Please excuse my stupidness, its the markings on the belt that drift, not the pulley markings, they should line up with the ones on the engine.

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

the cams are 90 degrees out? Hmm not to clever, if your really lucky it may have thrown the timing out enough to prevent damage.

Set the timing back properly and either do a compresion test or try and start it.

If you do a comp test 1st make sure theres even compresion, if its low but all the same then just take it the battery is flat. If only a couple are low then valves have smacked the pistons.

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

ouch!

Level 8 User Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 278

There is something up with the timing:

I set the timing and did a compression test - absolutely no compression.

From working out what should be happening I reckon that the outlet camshaft is timed correctly but the inlet one isn't. It seems to open the inlet valves when the cylinder is on its compression stroke, Thus pushing air out the inlet maifold!

I'm guessing that the tab on the camshaft got sheared off and the pulley kept going...

What now? - take the pulley off, work out where it should be in relation to the camshaft and use locktite to seal it. Is it possible to be that accurate?

Mr Quoter-vator Joined: 16 Feb 2004 Posts: 7405

well good start would be to take the pulley off...see if the key is sheared...if it is i would just get another camshaft ..prolly easier...

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

Right the pulley has the key in it the cam has a cut out. Now tbh the cam would break before the pulleys key would.

By all means take the pulley off, 15mm socket. Have a look.

How did you set the timing?

The crank pulleys woodruff key is more likely to cause trouble than the cams.