Engine mounts - where to get 'em and how to fit 'em

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Hi all
OK I've decided I really have to do something about my engine mounts before the carb starts bashing into the bulkhead. Figured since I am fairly certain the rear mount is buggered, which is the one which is gonna be the major pain in the arse, I may as well replace the lot. I'm working on the premise that replacing all of them will make them all last longer.

So the next question is, where do I buy them from? ECP have them on sale, all made by Sasic and which going by the part numbers are OEM parts (what that means in quality terms I don't know). It would seem that I need these parts:
338745110 ENGINE MOUNTING LHF .LH FRONT - MANUAL Â£16.50
338745120 OSF ENG MOUNTING R19 MEGANE OSF ENG MOUNT R19 MEGANE RH FRONT - MANUAL Â£23.87
338745130 REAR ENGINE MOUNTING R19 MEGANE REAR ENG MOUNTING R19 MEGANE REAR - MANUAL Â£26.39

GSF have the two 'easy' mounts for sale, but not the rear one it seems, but they are a good deal cheaper that the ECP parts, as shown below:
R10108 ENGINE MOUNTING-FRONT RH R19 (V SHAPED) Â£13.00
R10148 GEARBOX MOUNTING-LH R19 ALL Â£9.50

So my main question is, are the ECP parts likely to be worth the extra dosh? I remember Chris H saying the rear is abou Â£40, but not sure where this was from. Also, I would be interested to know any other places I could get the mounts, and how much they are from a Ren dealer (dare I ask Wink

) if there is any point in getting them elsewhere? Peoples experiences with specific brands ie. them dying quickly, or generally being of crappy construction etc. would be useful too.

The only other thing is, are there any dialogies docs on doing the mounts on a 19? I could only find the clio hanging mount instructions which are obviously no bloody use whatsoever. Failing that, peoples tips and tricks would be welcome, esp for the rear mount as this seems to be a total batard from others comments. No offence to Chris H btw - I know you have already given me instructions on the front two mounts and I haven't forgotten them Smile

- I just want as much insider info as I can get before I'm crawling round under the car! Very Happy

PS. When I do the mounts I will take piccys if you mods want to do a tech article on the process. Anyone who has pics already please post them - I've seen a few of the rear mount, but I was never sure which bits were actually the various bolts etc of the mount since theres so much other crap round there.

Cheers
Alex

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

i got my front mounts from GSF and the rear one from ECP. All seemed good enough quality and have held up fine so far (although thats only about 5000 miles admittedly).

rear one was a bit of a tight fit on the cross member, but doing the bolts up tight pulled it down.

there definately is a diagram for the 19 mounts on dialogys

Level 6 User Joined: 17 Apr 2004 Posts: 166

i got mine form gsf and reused the old rear mount mine was fine and its usually the fronts that go, ps hope this is relevamt kinda havent re the post but got jist from title Wink

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Anyone got a dialogies reference for the mount diag? I can never find anything I want on that damn software Razz

It always seems to be under the misaprehension that I give a rats arse about Clios and provides me with in depth info on them.

Regarding reusing the rear mount - if the mount is OK, how do you reuse it? Do you just take the bolts out and put them back in or tighten them up or what? How the ferk do you tell if the rear mount needs changing? I mean, the other two you can see fairly easy, but the rear mount is half hidden from what I can gather.

Just my luck that ECF are out of stock of the rear mount (and only the rear mount) - bah!

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Well I rumaged on dialogies again, and I found this diagram - is this the one you meant Neal or is there a better one?
I have to say that looking at it, I can see why the rear is likely to be a bastard, due to that large subframe bracket (labelled 20 in the image) which I think I am right in saying has to come out in order to get to the actual mount out (which I'm assuming is just the donut bit in the middle of item 20). So as I see it, its a case of:

Taking out the rearmost horizontal bolt from through the triangular bracket attached to the cylinder block, which presumably goes through the centre of the donut part of the mount.
Now the engine would be not attached to the subframe at this mounting point at all.
Then remove the vertical bolt(s?) from the subframe bracket, so you can remove that complete with the old donut mount stuck in the middle of it.
Then put the new mount into the subframe bracket, stick the bracket with new mount all back into the car and bolt it back down to the subframe.
Then try and align the hole through the triangular cylinder block bracket with the hole through the middle of the new mount, and put the through bolt back in through the cylinder bracket and mount.

The vertical bolt (or is it bolts - I dunno Smile

) that holds the mount to the subframe looks like it could be a bitch - Chris H I'm sure you've done these on Energy engines even if no-one else has; is there bugger all space for this bolt on these blocks, or are they better thant valvers? Although the diagram doesn't show it, I'm guessing there may well be another bolt on the subframe bracket the other side of the donut mount, to hold it firmly in place - someone care to verify?

Cheers
Alex

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

Yes thats the diagram. it would be nice if the rear mount were just the donut shaped bit of rubber itself and you could swap just that...would be easy.

But nay, the whole thing needs to come out, its all one unit.

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

also, it doesnt show it on that diagram, but there is a third bolt that holds the mount to the subframe, it goes through the mount and into the subframe horzontally from the rear.

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Ahhh OK - so the whole subframe bracket with the donut bit is all replaced as one item? That's not really any worse that I thought, as I figured that the bracket would have to come out even if only the donut bit was replaced.

As far as the bolts are concerned, on the subframe bracket/mount, I'm thinking I have two vertical bolts down through the bracket into the top side of the subframe crossmember (one on either side of the donut) and then this horizontal bolt - what does that bolt into though? Does this bolt go through a lip on the back side of the subframe bracket and into the back side of the subframe crossmember?

lol I gotta love Haynes on this one - the removal of the rear mount instructions only has 4 steps, two of which are concerning jacking up the car and supporting the engine weight, and one is classic "Fitting is the reversal of the removal process".
So the only actual step is to 'unscrew and remove the through bolt'. Apparently then the mount magically unbolts itself from the subframe and then floats gently out of the car while you have a sandwich Razz

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

Alex C wrote:

As far as the bolts are concerned, on the subframe bracket/mount, I'm thinking I have two vertical bolts down through the bracket into the top side of the subframe crossmember (one on either side of the donut) and then this horizontal bolt - what does that bolt into though? Does this bolt go through a lip on the back side of the subframe bracket and into the back side of the subframe crossmember?

almost precisely. theres a bit that sticks out downwards that goes down the back of the crossmember. on the original renault mounts its a proper hole, but on the sasic pattern part its an open slot. Doesnt really make it any easier though tbh. all 3 bolts pass through the crossmember and thread into this L shaped plate on the inside of the crossmember which will fall out on the floor when you remove the bolts. Remember this; you'll have plenty of fun with it Twisted Evil

you would instantly work all this out for yourself anyway the second you had the replacement one in your hand.

Level 5 User Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Posts: 119

hi chaps, dont know if u knew this but gsf do do the rear mount ...part no.
R31110...Â£15+vat Rolling Eyes

Im of to get 1 now.....see ya later Shocked

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

ok buddy...

Wink

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

After several emails to GSF that part number did come up, although its actually a Clio mount, so I don't know if they are the same.
The guy also said that he had gone off to check the part:
R42310 SUBFRAME MOUNTING-REAR R19 ALL PETROL MODELS INC 16V Â£18.50
and found, and I quote "it definatly has a large bolt hole
passing through a doghnut shaped mount and a bolt hole either side
below the doghnut mount", so I'm thinking maybe that is the right part. I'm gonna try and get a GSF branch to order one in so I can look at it, now I know what I'm looking for a bit better.
Is there anything else that this mount could be on a 19? I can't think of another place where you would have a mount like this on the car, but then that doesn't necessarily mean there isn't one Very Happy

Cheers
Alex

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

clio mount is totally different, known as the dog bone mount

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

1st one was the clio dogbone the 19 doughnut mount is quite lage and totally different from the clio mount.

the one the guy describes sounds about right.

I tbh would only buy a ren rear mount, other 2 any cheap tat will do but the rear takes the most abuse.

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

So how much for a Ren rear mount then Chris - is it Â£40ish? You got a part number so the muppets don't sell me the wrong one? Wink

Am I right in thinking that the only places I will get a genuine Ren part is a dealership?

Does most of the weight sit on the rear one (it looks like it does judging by the engine angle and position of the mount) and this is why it needs to be a good 'un?

Cheers
Alex

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

gone up in price since I last got one.

77 00 804 163 ENGINE MOUNT 19 44.89

yes you'll only get it really at renault, might be able to get it at gsf but I doubt it.

The rear mount takes the weight of the engine and the gearbox plus its stressed all the time, its after all what takes all the strain wether accelerating or decelerating.

So its up to you but if your not planning on keeping the car a while then get a cheap one. Filling the voids with tiger seal will increase harshness but strengthen the mount.

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Hmmm well I spose I'd better get a Ren one really since I don't know how long I'll be keeping the car, and besides it'll give me something good to use as a selling point if I do sell it I guess Wink

Are the Ren parts just better put together, or are they visibly/feelably tougher? I guess they probably fit a bit snugger than pattern parts which no doubt reduces wear. I'm just wondering why they are so much more expensive (even given the large Â£ margins Ren allow themselves). I'm assuming thats Â£44.89+VAT too isn't it Sad

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

yep need to add VAT on.

Yes the renault mounts (all of them) are thicker and tougher than the pattern parts.

Thats why they last so long.

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

OK in the interests of saving myself some of the money I don't have, I'm going to buy and install the front RH mount which is definately shagged, and while I'm under there I'll check the others.

What I want to know is:

a) if the rear mount is dead, will I actually be able to install a new front RH mount or will the engine be in the wrong position?
b) how do the rear mounts fail? Like what does a failed mount look like? Does the large crossbolt that passes through the engine bracket and then through the rubber donut snap, or does the rubber donut just fall into pieces, or what? Can you tell if its OK or fercucked just by feel/sight or do you have to dismantle it to find out?
c) what does a duff gearbox mount look like? Chris you said it looked fine from the pics I took of it, but I'm not sure if that was an 'its definately ok' or 'it looks ok from this angle' - is there any way to easily check that one too?

FYI my engine seems to be moving backwards towards the passenger compartment - the aux belt is now perillously close to the subframe at the back where the alt is - theres only about 1/2-3/4" of space! Also, I'm having a problem with me brakes where the pedal is nice and stiff when I first start driving, but after a while the pedal goes a bit squishy feeling. It still bites from the top of the pedal same as when cold, but the travel is more springy and squishy. Is this related?

Cheers
Alex

Forum Moderator Joined: 18 Feb 2004 Posts: 7432

if you can get a look at the rear mount you should be able to see if it needs replacing. The name 'donut' is a bit misleading, as rubber part is not a solid donut. The bit with the hole in for the bolt to go through is sort of suspended in the middle of a metal hoop by 4 'arms' of rubber. Obviously these eventually split. Like i said if you can get a good look it should be quite apparent if any of the 'arms' are severed.

Duff gearbox mount is harder to spot. Its just a bit lump of rubber with metal bonded onto the top and bottom. As its always under compression when at rest, if there is a split you might not be able to see it. try pushing back on the head to rock the engine back, might be able to see a split that way.

As for the brakes, in wet weather, the brakes will always be sharp when you first start driving after a period standing, this is just rust on the discs making them more effective.

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Ah thanks Neal - that rear mount explanation makes sense to me so I know what I'm looking for.

As for the brakes, they were doing this wierdness before the recent spell of rain, in fact they had been doing it consistently for a couple of weeks before I has me little accident and stopped driving it much cause I couldn't drive it at night! Before this, it had air in it because of duff rubber brake pipes on the front, and the brake pedal was always spongy and didn't bite quickly if you know what I mean - you would press the pedal down an inch and the brakes would gradually come on. For a few weeks it was fine, and now its doing something a bit different, as its nice and sharp when first starting out, but gets softer as you drive along. It's the 'regeneration' of the brakes that seems wierd to me.

Cheers
Alex