Engine coolant leak :(

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Hi all
I've now acquired a nasty leak of coolant from the back of the engine on my 19. Its an Energy E6J engine, and theres water coming out somewhere on the cambelt end of the engine and dripping onto the floor Sad

There seems to be a ledge under the alternator where its pooling and then running off the end of the ledge, which is under the alternators belt end. Is the block/head cracked or something, or has a hose just gone pop? I can't think what hoses there are around the backside of the engine.

Someone please help! Is this the end for my car?? Confused

Cheers
Alex

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

could be the water pump but if its deffo round the back then it may be the hose to the inlet manifold or more likely the stub in the manifold thats corroded away.

Pipe goes from the statt housing right round the back of the engine into the manifold at the belt end, feel round the back. if its th estub then you can replace it, theres 2 sizes 14 and 16mm I think. You need to know what size.

Also renault will say they can't sell it seperately but they do.

I can give you the part numbers if ye want.

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

78 10 143 000 UNION 14MM 3.75 thats the 14mm one

77 05 030 338 UNION 2 WAY 16MM 2.21 thats the 16mm one

dunno why the 16mm is cheaper

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Ahh thanks Chris - I will look at it properly tomorrow in the light. As I was stuck in traffic when it first started playing up, I can give you a detailed account of the symptoms!

a) Temperature gauge rising very quickly when idle, up to half way between 1/2 and 3/4. When stat reading is at this level, heater matrix is blowing cold air.
b) When driving along at 25mph ish the temp gauge drops to normal (1/4), and the heater starts providing heat again.
c) Engine is running absoultely fine the whole time - no stuttering, no loss of power, no stalling or anything.
d) When turning corners, could hear a squeaking clonking about sound from the front (this could be the loose pipe I presume?)

Gotta say it was the most stressful 15 minutes I have had in that car getting home Confused

I would have stopped but since I had no idea what was going on, I decided I wouldnt unless the car overheated properly. Funny thing was, the temp gauge never went above the half-way-between-1/2-and-3/4 point. Hope I haven't done any major damage from driving with it in this state - the engine still sounds fine, so I'm hoping not.

Will post again tomorrow

Cheers
Alex

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

engine will prob be fine.

But a loose pipe shouldn't cause any squeaking/clonking noises!

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

I was thinking about the pipe maybe having come right off or something - it sounds like a bit of a long pipe, so the though occurred. Probably something else lol - and I was going to go to a mates garage to fit the engine mounts this weekend... I guess that will have to wait! There are so many things that are a bit dodgy on me car at the moment thats its difficult to know what symptoms are from what knackered bit Smile

Cheers
Alex

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

OK had a properish look at the car today - the rusty water trail starts on the back side of the alt, ie the non-belt end. I found the pipe that goes from the lower of the two coolant pipe joins on the right hand end of the engine block, right round the back of the engine and carb, and into the bottom of the inlet manifold above the alternator.

This pipe is on really tight, and it doesn't seem to have any coolant residue on it. Also, the splat of rust colour on the alt looks too far to the right side of the engine bay to be coming from that. However, I had a quick feel under the inlet manifold and there is lots of coolant all over the bottom of it on the side nearest to where the pipe joins (left hand side of the manifold). I can't see any coolant on the top side of the manifold at all, so I'm assuming something has dropped off the bottom of the manifold.

Is this sounding like the stub you were talking about Chris? If so what am I feeling for? Is there only one stub? What was the dialogies diagram you got the part ref from? What does the stub actually do (asides from leak coolant when its buggered)?

Cheers
Alex

Edit: Found the diag in dialogies, and where the stub is. If the coolant goes out of this point from the manifold, where does it go into the manifold? Does the coolant come out of the head into the inlet manifold and then out through this stub into the pipe?

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

coolant runs from the head through the manifold then along the pipe.

There are core plugs on the underside of the manifold, these may have corroded through.

The coolant is coming from the manifold no doubt as thats where its wet so a core plug or the hose stub would be my guess.

The stub corrodes into the hose so if you just try and yank it off it will tear the hose. Twist it and you may get the hose off or break the stub in the hose but that way you can extract the stub from the hose.

remove the manifold and it may be an idea to renew the core plugs on it and the stub even if only 1 thing is leaking.

I assume you haver the good old brown coolant mix?

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Yeh I got the nice brown coolant mix Smile

At least is makes it easy to trace a leak!

What is involved in removing the manifold btw? Do you have to separate the carb from the manifold before you can get it off, or can you get the whole lot out in one? Presumably you have to take the 8 nuts off that hold the manifold to the head, and remove the vacuum hose to the brake servo and the coolant pipe, and the fuel inlet pipe and the air pipe from the airbox, but what else is there to remove?

Also I know this sounds daft, but where actually are the core plugs and what do they do? On the dialogies diagram it has them shown, but I can't make out where they are supposed to be attached to the manifold. From the diagram it looks like the coolant gets into the menifold via an extra hole near the nut and stud holes on the right hand end of the manifold, and then flows round the manifold to the left hand end and then out of the pipe thats there. The core plug shown seems to be inserted upwards into the bottom of the manifold, but can't see where and I can't figure it out since I don't really know what their purpose is! Smile

Cheers
Alex

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

take the carb etc off. Its easy. 4 t30 screws holes the carb on.

Carb off drain the cooling system remove the manifold after taking off the brake servoe hose and th evacuum hose for the ignition module. easy job.

Core plugs are inserted in the underside of the manifold, theres a water jacket in the manifold, thats how it flows from 1 side to exit through the hose.

Core plugs seal holes left from the casting process. Thats where the sand escapes from. They are not there to alowo an engine survive when frozen etc. Casting only.

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Don't think I need to worry about draining the coolant - the expansion tank just has rusty slime in it at the bottom having drained out the hole (wherever that is) last night so I don't think theres anything much left! At least it will motivate me to flush the system out properly now Wink

Regards getting the carb off, am I right in thinking its 3 bolts to get the duct off, then the four bolts out of the top of the carb, remove the fuel inlet hose that runs from the rocker cover to the carb from the carb, remove the crankcase ventilation hose (not sure which hose that is yet though!), and disconnect the accelerator and choke cables from the carb, then the whole thing just lifts out? Have I missed anything out?

The core plug thing makes sense to me now - no wonder I couldn't see a functional point to them - there isn't one!
By the way, do you have any idea whether I will need 18mm or 22mm core plugs? And similarly, is there any way to find if I need the 16mm or the 14mm coolant pipe stub thing?

Cheers
Alex

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

yea thats right. Its 3 10mm nuts that hold the top plastic bit on.

fuel inlet, return carb float chamber vent pipe (one that runs to the passenger wheel arch area), chock and throttle cables. Should take about 10mins to get the carb off.

Waggle the carb to try and make sure the gasket doesn't go.

yep its called taking it off and measuring them to see. Thats the best method.

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Oh another thing - sorry to be a pain in the arse! The end of the vacuum hose on the carb end that runs to the brake servo is split and splaying out a bit, so could this be responsible for my unpredictable brake servo performance? I have found (bizzare as it may sound) that if I coast at high speed in neutral, and then after say 30 seconds use the brake pedal, it is super firm as it should be, but if I slow down in gear, its squishy (well after a little bit of driving anyway).

Cheers
Alex

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Cheers Chris - will get onto removing the carb tomorrow. The rocker cover vent hose - which one is this? Where does it come out of the rocker cover? If I can find one end of it I can trace it back to the carb.

Cheers
Alex

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

the vent hose comes from the top back of the carb and runs to the passenger side wheel arch area, it actually clips to the front arch liner.

rocker cover hoses go into the plastic box and into the manifold.

brake servo makes th epedal lighter, thats why its called a servo, it assists you breaking, so on overrun, coasting in gear there should be a high vacuum and it shoudl be fine.

Anyway a split hose will be doing no good so sort it out.

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Yep I get what you mean - I know the servo is meant to make it easier to push the pedal down, which is fine, but what is odd is that when its what I think is 'normal', the pedal is quite firm when you push on it (not as firm as when the engine is off by any means) with nicely progressive braking effect as you push the pedal down, starting right at the top of the pedal travel. However, when its misbehaving, the pedal feels like its 'giving way' under your foot, and it travels much further before you get the proper firm pedal feel back and the decent progressive braking effect that comes with it (before that you get some unpredictable amount of braking effort but not much). Its a bit tricky to explain so I won't be surprised if you reply with "eh?!" Smile

Cheers
Alex

Site Subscriber Joined: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 2317

I think i know what you mean Alex, my TD pedal travels a bit before braking, doesnt take much to lock them after that.

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

every time I have had that on a car a new master cyl has cured it.

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Does your car do it consistently? Thats the thing that bugs me the most - I never quite know how much braking I'm going to get and at what level of pedal depresssion. When I start out with the car cold, the pedal is lovely and firm, but then it suddenly will go all squishy, and then go back to normal once or twice, then back to squishy. I have found that if I turn the car off, pump the pedal until the servo is empty and the pedal goes firm again, I can restart and the pedal will be firm again, but it never lasts. Its kind of disconcerting to say the least having variable braking behaviour! Smile

Cheers
Alex

Level 6 User Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 155

Is it a painful job to do Chris or is it fairly easy to do? It seems like its just a case of drain the fluid reservoir, remove the reservoir from the cylinder, disconnect all four metal brake pipes from the two union points (for the two circuits I presume), then unbolt the master cylinder from the back of the servo and somehow get it out round the edge of the engine. Sounds like it could be one of those jobs which should be easy, but in practice is an arse Smile

Cheers
Alex

Forum Moderator Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 19978

yes its an arse, easy way is to remove the engine.

beleive it or not due to the 16V's remote resovoir set up its actually easier to do on a 16V than the 1.4's.

I woudl check everythign else int he brakign circuit before changign the MC though.

rear brake cylinders always leak/seize up so these can bring about dodgy braking.

Also the rubber hoses if they are original will need replaced and they can also bulge when old causign dodgy braking.